The WYSO Race Project invites two everyday people from the Miami Valley to talk about their life experiences through the prism of skin color.
These conversations can be difficult and controversial. But they also can build understanding and healing.
In this episode, hear a conversation from Jalyn Gilbert and Karen Korn.
This conversation has been lightly edited for length and clarity.
Jaylyn Gilbert: My name is Jalyn Gilbert. I'm a 27-year-old Black American. I'm currently a middle school teacher in Dayton at an early college academy where I teach Black history and social justice to grades five through eight. I'm a graduate student at UD, and I'm working to become a principal.
Karen Korn: I'm Karen Korn, and I'm a 53-year-old white woman. I identify as female. I have three adult children. I have a bachelor's degree in art history, a master's degree in anthropology, and then a Ph.D. in Ed Leadership. So I'm in education like you are.
So, Jalyn, can you tell me when you were first aware of your own race?
Gilbert: I remember I was going to this camp, it's a “-isms” camp. We learned about racism, sexism, ableism and so on. So I remember I was going with my mom, I was arguing, I was like, “It's not even racism anymore.” And my mom turned around to look at me and was like, “You're crazy.” And I was like, “It's really not.” And I was like, “It's been 300 years. Like you are holding it over your head. You need to let it go.”
And then I went to the camp and they had us do an activity where we had to sit in our race and write down the good things about our race.
Then they told the Black kids to pause and go read all the answers that everybody else was writing, and like it was the first time I cried about something Black, just like reading.
It was like, “don't have to get stopped by the police, don't have to worry about nappy hair, don't have to worry about getting dark in the summer.” And I was like, “That's what makes you proud of being white?” And it was just so hurtful. And I was like, these are people that I liked all week.
Korn: What was your mom's response when you came back?
Gilbert: She laughed. Because she was like, “I told you. That’s what you get.” And it was like, “Now you know.”
So, Karen, when were you first aware of race?
Korn: When I was in kindergarten, I went to school and there was a little girl who was Black, and we got along really well. And I remember, you know, coming home and talking about her and then seeing a worried look on my mom's face. And I was like, “Why are you worried?” I just didn't understand that.
She always talked about how when she was growing up, she had a best friend that was Black, and she would talk about a sadness that she felt about how when they got to a certain age, there was like social pressures for them to not be friends anymore. And I think she was like, "oh no, I hope this doesn't happen to my daughter, kind of thing," if that makes sense.
And even just seeing that look on her face for a second, it was like a moment where I was like, something's amiss. And I didn't really understand race, but I think I was aware that there was like this imagined difference or made up difference about me and this girl. That was our skin.
Okay. Jalyn, how do you feel when white people talk about racism?
Gilbert: At my school, we're very open about race. We are very open. We can have authentic conversations. We have circles. So we have restorative justice. So I can sit down with the white teacher at my school and say, “You didn't make me feel comfortable. And you prioritized the safety and well-being of Black kids. But you don't prioritize the safety and well-being of Black adults. That's a problem.”
I can genuinely say, like, I feel safe in the presence of white teachers at my school.
Korn: That's awesome.
Gilbert: Okay, Karen, what do you think fair reparations would look like?
Korn: I feel like there's never going to be a fair repayment and that the damage when you study trauma, it impacts people on a personal level. And then it gets put into your DNA, right? And it transfers to the next generation. So how do you make a reparations program such that it impacts future generations, so that that's not just one generation gets a bunch of money or something.
We want to do something now so that people aren't suffering in the future.
If you could do one thing, Jalyn, what would you do to change the way people of color are treated in America?
Gilbert: I would require the education of Black history, in all lenses, just because I think Black history is American history. They have to coexist. We need a reset, and we need to redo every system that is built off of racism, which is every system in America. Black people do need reparations.
I think we need a public apology from the United States government for the history of Black people and set systems in place that benefit Black people, so that Black people can finally just have an equal or a fair opportunity to succeed.
Korn: I like all those ideas personally. Jalyn, thank you for your willingness to share with me and for the work that you do.
Gilbert: Karen, thank you. Thank you for your honesty. Thank you for your transparency.
