One Small Step with WYSO brings strangers with different beliefs together for a conversation — not to debate politics, but to simply get to know each other.
In this episode, Lisa Koepke from Cincinnati and AJ Busé from Dayton meet online and discuss a big, and often complicated, idea: patriotism. As part of their conversation, they talk about one of the most recognizable symbols of patriotism in the United States, the American flag, and how different people connect to it in different ways.
This conversation has been edited for length and clarity.
Koepke: I think that the United States is really the best country in the world. It's got its problems, but the United states I believe offers us more opportunity, more freedom than any other place that I know of. So for me, that's where I go when I think of "what does patriotism mean to you?"
Busé: Patriotism, that's a word I struggle with because what does that mean? To some people, this is my view, but I see some people, patriotic to them means "I've got an American flag on my pickup and I say 'I love 'Merica and if you don't like it, you get out. And if you're not white, you get out, you know, all our founding fathers were old white men and so all Americans should be white men. And if you're not straight, you get out" kind of attitude. So it's tough when somebody talks about patriotism to almost not feel a little bit negative about that. And I think that's a shame, and I hate that I feel that. But, you know, to me, it is loving all Americans. So to that sense, I feel I'm patriotic. I just don't wave a flag.
Koepke: I do feel like I am patriotic and my dad and many of my relatives were members of the service. And so that is the seed, I'm sure. My dad taught me to have great respect for the flag. I was a girl scout. I knew how to take care of a flag. I still salute. I still get choked up during the national anthem. They're just little flags, but I have two of them stuck at my front door. And the things that you said about that sometimes there's things that have become associated with that that I'm not associated with. I have no feelings of limiting freedoms for anybody. So I guess I just have to be who I am and let people see that a patriot can look like me. I'm not gonna hurt you.
Busé: Nice.
Koepke: As a matter of fact, I love and support you for being a human being.
Busé: So tell me, you said you have two small American flags at your front door. Somebody's just walking up to your front door and they see those two American flags. What do you want them to think about you and your beliefs and your politics and all of that? What's the message you're wanting people to receive?
Koepke: That's such a great question. I guess just letting people know that the flag means something to me. It's important enough for me to display at my front door. I hope it's not off putting. And you know what, I guess if it is, come on in and let's talk about it or just get to know me and you'll see that I'm not here to hurt anybody. I guess it's a risk I'm willing to take in spite of the negative associations.
Busé: I'm proud of us, you and me, that we really found things that we have in common and talked about those, and I love that.
Koepke: Yeah, I'm looking forward to our paths crossing. And even if it's not exactly you, although I would love it to be you, someone like you.
One Small Step with WYSO is produced by the Eichelberger Center for Community Voices at WYSO. This series is made possible by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and presented by the Charles F. Kettering Foundation.
