In a recent series for the Dayton Daily News, long-time newspaper reporter Wes Hills detailed the contents of a secretly recorded conversation between Pete Rose and a bookie he owed $30,000.
The audio tape — in the FBI’s possession following a raid of the bookie’s home — was released to reporter Hills after he petitioned for its release in 1997.
We spoke with Wes Hills about the tape and how it ties the bookie to the FBI’s investigation, and what it says about the baseball legend's gambling addiction.
This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.
Wes Hills: I had an informant in Dayton who did a lot of fencing for Richard "the skin man" Skinner. Fencing is where you're selling stolen goods. He did a little money laundering, too. Skinner was the biggest bookie in southwestern Ohio.
And anyway, this man introduced me to a woman who insisted on being identified only as "Legs." And she had accompanied, Skinner in 1986, when he secretly tape recorded his effort to collect a $30,000 gambling debt from Pete Rose.
I was not able to write the story at that time because I was concerned that would simply lead to the tape being destroyed. So that's at least how I learned about it. Then the FBI seized the tape in a search warrant raid on the shooter's home in 1992, and that warrant remained under seal in the U.S. District Court in Dayton until 1997. Which is it's interesting because that was a year after Skinner died, and I think the FBI waited until his death to unseal this.
So anyway, after that, after this was filed, I filed a letter to the District Court Judge Walter H. Rice, who was then chief judge, and asked him if I could have a copy of that. And I explained why I believe the public had a right to see it. And Judge Rice ordered the government to show cause why on the tape it shouldn't be made public.
And by golly, I was surprised. But I got the tape.
"It makes it rather clear what an insatiable gambling addiction he had."
Jerry Kenney: I want to now jump back to the Pete Rose problem, and can you just describe his career and what this did to him?
Hills: Well, in terms of Pete Rose's career, I'm hardly the person to talk to, I never was a baseball fan. In fact, I don't even know what positions he played.
But I think probably what is most enlightening in some ways would be that Dick Skinner was furious with Pete Rose's failure to pay him the $30,000 gambling debt, and that was exhibited on the tape. The tape also suggests how addicted Rose was to gambling at one time. Rose suggests 'Well, maybe we could have an installment plan on paying back the money.' Says 'I got a guy who owes me $17,000,' and Skinner says, 'well, what do you mean, a bookmaker?' And Skinner said, 'yeah, know he's good for it. It's just for a week.'
Rose was essentially telling Skinner that after tapping out his credit with him, he had moved on to another bookie rather than paying the $30,000. Rose was stiffing other bookies as well. And Skinner says 'Oh, like I heard you were hiring a guy on Hamilton. Some Ron or somebody. He's identifying a guy named Ron Peters, and Peters became the first person to go to the FBI — or I believe, actually, he didn't go to them, they arrested him, and he gave up Pete Rose as part of his arrest.
So anyway, I think the tape the gives a real early indication of Skinner's motive and opportunity to get even with Pete Rose for not paying this debt. You know, Pete's probably lucky to come out of this without getting his legs broken. But, you know, being who he was, I suppose he wouldn't have done that with him.
And there's a lot of other things to suggest that Dick Skinner was, in fact, the FBI informant who gave up Pete Rose and the Baseball Commission, when they did their investigation of Pete, found other instances where Pete was stiffing bookies as well in New York and other places, is that guy recently saw Pete Rose just before his death, indicated that he lost $100 million in gambling over his life.
It makes it rather clear what an insatiable gambling addiction he had.
This month President Donald Trump issued a statement that within the next few weeks he would be issuing a complete pardon for Pete Rose, and advocated for his addition to the Baseball Hall of Fame.
You can link to the reporter Josh Sweigart’s wide ranging article “Gem City Gamble: Dayton’s police corruption, gangsters and the downfall of Pete Rose” here.
