SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST:
When prominent people pass away, NPR reporters go on the airwaves as soon as possible to encapsulate what are often complicated lives.
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MICHEL MARTIN: Former Vice President Dick Cheney has died. He was 84 years old.
PFEIFFER: Like this week, when Dick Cheney died. NPR national political correspondent Don Gonyea was on Morning Edition minutes after the news broke.
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DON GONYEA, BYLINE: In office, Cheney became a lightning rod for administration critics as he redefined the office of the vice president.
PFEIFFER: When a death is unexpected, like when a news-maker dies at an unusually young age, it can be a scramble to put together an obituary. Other times, writing an obit is a decades-long process. Don was assigned the Cheney obituary 25 years ago.
GONYEA: We were in the middle of the presidential transition, so Cheney hadn't even taken office yet. And I was at the Austin Airport waiting to come home, and I got a call from my editor, who said, Cheney had a heart attack. We don't have an obit on the shelf. So I sat down in the airport and wrote what became the first draft.
PFEIFFER: A quarter century later, and after many rewrites, Don finally filed Cheney's obituary this past Monday.
GONYEA: There were many, many plot twists along the way for Cheney. There was the Iraq war. He shot a friend of his on a hunting trip. He had heart transplants (laughter). And then, when you think that there's nothing more to say, he in his final years was at odds with his own party, even endorsing Kamala Harris for president.
PFEIFFER: NPR's arts and culture reporters often do obituaries. Elizabeth Blair is NPR's cultural trends correspondent, and she's filed dozens of obits over the years.
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ELIZABETH BLAIR, BYLINE: Little Richard tore down barriers, starting in the 1950s.
Cicely Tyson brought grace and gravitas to the roles she played.
JUANA SUMMERS: Burt Bacharach wrote melodies that appealed to generations of listeners. NPR's Elizabeth...
PFEIFFER: Elizabeth says choosing who gets an NPR obituary isn't always a clear call.
BLAIR: I mean, one person might think a certain artist is the most famous and so important, and other people might say, well, yes, but they weren't that influential. Do we really need to spend...
PFEIFFER: For this week's Reporter's Notebook conversation, where we talk about how we do our jobs, I spoke with Don and Elizabeth about the art of writing obits. And Elizabeth listed more of the noteworthy deaths she's covered.
BLAIR: Well, there are two - Sumner Redstone and Harry Belafonte. Sumner Redstone lived to be 97. I believe I started his obit when he was in his late 80s. Harry Belafonte lived to be 96. And similar to what Don was saying, I don't remember the year I started, but Belafonte had taken a fall and he was in the hospital, that it could be a bad fall. And we didn't have anything ready, and so I came in on the weekend and got started and...
PFEIFFER: Two very different types of obits - one, sort of a business tycoon; one, a quite famous singer.
BLAIR: What we do runs the gamut (laughter). We - one day, it's a poet. The next day, it's a titan of media.
PFEIFFER: Right. And we've been talking about advance obituaries, but, of course, there are breaking news obits where someone dies unexpectedly - maybe they're not even particularly old - and then it's much more of a scramble. Elizabeth, how is that a different process for you when you haven't had a long time, maybe years, to put into the process?
BLAIR: I've done so many of these, and every time I'm terrified, especially if it's not someone I know very well. One thing that's really nice is that NPR has a very rich archive of interviews, so that helps. It really - it's just kind of the adrenaline rush, right? You are doing a crash course on this person's life and looking for the details - where they're from, what shaped their world view. What did they accomplish? Who did they influence? And it feels good when it's over...
PFEIFFER: Yeah.
BLAIR: ...And, you know, you feel like you've imparted something special about this person.
PFEIFFER: And, Don, do you have a approach so that you are sensitive, knowing that some people might be grieving if a death has just happened, or they might be caught off-guard because you're calling about the death of someone who - the eventual death of someone who's now alive?
GONYEA: Yes. In fact, I've found it easier to talk to people in the moment after the death because...
PFEIFFER: Oh, interesting.
BLAIR: Agreed.
GONYEA: ...You're giving them a chance to talk about this person's life and why this person that they knew, that they interacted with, that maybe they called a friend or a colleague or whatever, why they mattered. When you call them in advance, when you know the person is sick or maybe somebody has taken a fall or whatever the reason is, in those cases, that's when I find people very reluctant to talk. I have done this thing where maybe a couple of weeks later, I would call that person back, and they know exactly what I'm calling about - right? - but I would, this time, frame the question - we're working on a retrospective about so and so's life. We'd love you to be part of it. We'd love you to talk about what you know about them and why you were close. And I have found that they tend to say yes to that.
PFEIFFER: When the two of you do your obits, are you trying also to basically find people who can summarize a life for you, who can distill a person's essence? Talk to me about the tribute aspect of obits.
BLAIR: I'm sure we both look for both - right? - and that's a tall order because, you know, people know what they know about that person, how that person influenced them or how they hung out with that person in college or whatever it is. In the end, it's a combination. It's a combination of archival material of the person talking. It's a friend. It's somebody who was a huge fan. I mean, just one story is Toshi Seeger, who is the widow of the folk icon Pete Seeger. And Judy Collins was very eager to talk about her because she knew that behind the scenes of this folk legend was this woman organizing his schedule and his festivals, and she meant a lot to him but also to the artists that he worked with.
PFEIFFER: And, Don, do you have an example of that?
GONYEA: I do. I ask people, and I ask myself as I'm preparing the obit, what doesn't the world know about this person? Sometimes, there's something you know from covering them that isn't part of the daily dialogue, that isn't part of their main story, but highlighting it can be really powerful. John Dingell, the long-serving congressman from Michigan. John Dingell was a teenager working as a page in the U.S. House of Representatives. And after the bombing of Pearl Harbor, FDR was in that chamber delivering his famous day of infamy speech. John Dingell was off to the side watching.
PFEIFFER: Obviously, obits include a person's accomplishments, but they also need to cover some of a person's mistakes or failings or controversies. How do you tackle those sensitive parts and balance a person's strengths and weaknesses throughout their lives so that the obituary is respectful, doesn't appear to malign the dead, but also doesn't sugarcoat what they may have done poorly in life? Elizabeth, you're nodding.
BLAIR: Yes, because it's part of that person's life. And, you know, if it's a minor infraction, then I think you don't need to say it, but if it - we had an obit. Neda Ulaby did an obit on Franco Zeffirelli that I edited, and...
PFEIFFER: Director of "Romeo And Juliet"?
BLAIR: Yes, and "Taming Of The Shrew" with Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton and "Endless Love." And after - years after "Romeo And Juliet," the young actor who played Romeo accused him of sexual assault, and Zeffirelli never addressed the allegations. But we put that in there. We - there were some other things that he had said and done that were somewhat controversial and that we did include, but it was also a celebration, an honoring of everything that he contributed to his craft. So I think it's - the best obits are the full picture.
PFEIFFER: Have either of you done an obituary where you learned something about a person's life or you were inspired or impressed by what they did, and you felt like it made you reflect on your own life differently and what you might want to accomplish yourselves when your own obituaries get written?
BLAIR: I did an obit on a man named Jim Steinman, a composer, lyricist, you know, behind-the-scenes music person. And I'd never heard of him, but I certainly had heard of who he'd worked for - Meatloaf. "Paradise By The"...
GONYEA: Oh, yeah.
BLAIR: ..."Dashboard Light" and...
GONYEA: Yeah, "Bat Out Of Hell."
BLAIR: ..."Bat Out Of Hell."
GONYEA: (Laughter).
BLAIR: Celine Dion, Bonnie Tyler. And it was fascinating reading about him. He was known as the Lord of Excess. And there was this one quote of his that I found, which is, if you don't go over the top, you can't see what's on the other side.
PFEIFFER: Oh, I love that.
BLAIR: And I do not live my life this way, but I love the freedom of that quote, and it's, like, something to strive for in a way.
PFEIFFER: Yeah.
BLAIR: Yeah.
PFEIFFER: I love that. That's a wonderful - it's a wonderful way to live. NPR's Elizabeth Blair and Don Gonyea, thank you very much for talking about this.
BLAIR: Thank you.
GONYEA: It's been a pleasure. Thank you.
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