AILSA CHANG, HOST:
In San Francisco today, a federal judge heard arguments on whether to pull back troops that President Trump called to California. The president deployed troops from both the National Guard and the U.S. Marines. Meanwhile, protests have continued here in Los Angeles. Last night was relatively quiet, as police broke up some demonstrations ahead of an 8 p.m. curfew. The protests emerging around the country are against President Trump's immigration enforcement policies, but this moment has also become a political test, not just for Trump but also for California's Democratic Governor Gavin Newsom.
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GAVIN NEWSOM: This brazen abuse of power by a sitting president inflamed a combustible situation, putting our people, our officers and even our National Guard at risk.
CHANG: Joining us now is KQED political correspondent Marisa Lagos. Hi, Marisa.
MARISA LAGOS, BYLINE: Hey, Ailsa.
CHANG: OK, so we just heard Newsom there in remarks on Tuesday night criticizing President Trump quite directly. As someone who follows the governor closely, what are you making of this whole political moment for Newsom?
LAGOS: Yeah, well, until this week, it's been a pretty rough go for the governor. There was, of course, the devastating loss at the ballot box in November and then the Los Angeles fires and threats from President Trump to withhold funding from the state. And then there was that widely panned podcast the governor launched, where he was interviewing folks, including folks like Charlie Kirk, the right-wing provocateur. He got a lot of blowback on that one for questioning the fairness of trans women and girls in sports. And then there's, you know, the things in Sacramento, the looming deficit...
CHANG: Right.
LAGOS: ...More cuts from the federal government. So I would say that this is a moment where he seems to have found his footing finally this year, and he is definitely not pulling any punches with the president. And I should say just generally, Ailsa, tensions are really high here. Before, just today, Senator Alex Padilla, the Democrat from California, was forcibly removed by federal agents from a news conference that the Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem was holding. He was actually forced to the ground and handcuffed.
CHANG: Right.
LAGOS: And so this is, you know - things are definitely tense here.
CHANG: Absolutely. Well, we cannot talk about Newsom and his politics, of course, without talking about a possible run for the presidency in 2028. Where do you think all of the tumultuousness of these last several days puts Newsom with other Democrats, as far as you can tell right now?
LAGOS: Yeah, I mean, I think national Democrats are always a little skeptical of Newsom. The country kind of loves to hate California, and his image and ambition have always made him kind of complicated for the party. But there's also more substantive things that have, I think, angered people here and, you know, throughout the country, on the left, like budget that he proposed that include health care cuts to immigrants in the country without legal status. So I think there's been a lot of questions about whether he's kind of, like, pulling back from his progressive positions. But I think he's getting a little redemption here, and he's really leaning into it. He and his office have been sparring with the federal government on social media. And he's really, you know, as we heard there, taken the fight to Trump in that speech and other comments.
CHANG: Well, what about Republicans? Like, how have the last several days been playing out with them here in California and more broadly, over - across the country?
LAGOS: Yeah. I mean, nationally, I think Republicans are lining up behind Trump, and they are really accusing Newsom of being politically opportunistic. I've heard multiple folks say, you know, he's using this unrest to launch his 2028 run. It's a little more complicated in the state. You know, for folks who are Republican and have constituents who may be in these communities affected by these ICE raids and these protests, I think it's a little more of a nuanced debate, even on the right. But I am seeing a lot of pushback. Republicans in Sacramento are using this to attack things they don't like that Newsom has supported, like our sanctuary state laws.
CHANG: Well, Democrats have been struggling to find some kind of message that speaks to voters and that also responds to President Trump. Do you think Newsom has hit on something here?
LAGOS: I kind of do. You know, this is where I think, as somebody who's watched him for almost 20 years, we're kind of seeing the governor hit his stride. I think he was a little bit unsure of how to deal with this president in the last few months, given all the things California does need from Trump. But I think seeing armed troops deployed in an American city is a scary thing for a lot of people, even if you support more immigration enforcement or even the president. And so I believe that there is some public support here for what the governor is doing right now. Democrats have really struggled since the election to find their message and figure out how to push back on this president and his agenda, and they've been waiting for someone to stand up. I think Gavin Newsom is giving them that. He's doing that.
CHANG: At the moment. That is Marisa Lagos from KQED. Thank you so much, Marisa.
LAGOS: My pleasure. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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