Pope Leo XIV has been head of the Catholic Church for almost a month. And while some of the surprise that an American cardinal was chosen may have worn off, many are still wondering about its implications.
One of them is Anthony Smith, University of Dayton Associate Professor of Religious Studies and author of The Look of Catholics: Portrayals in Popular Culture.
He spoke to us about the new pope’s place in pop-culture.
This transcript has been lightly edited for time and clarity.
Anthony Smith: This was a surprise to me. I think it was a surprise to many people, even peoplewho study Catholicism, right?
My students at UD asked me when Pope Francis died, did I think the next Pope would be an American? I said, no. And the reason for that I think is because that the United States has so much power in the world. It's a global entity, it's economic, it's cultural power, thanks to things like Hollywood and mass culture, and it's military power. It is of the one global superpowers.
And I just thought that having an American as Pope would not be a possibility because the Catholic Church itself is global and whether the global community of Catholic leaders, cardinals would want to kind of give the Americans one more notch in its belt, so to speak, as a kind of a counterweight to the enormous power of the United States in the world. So I was surprised by that.
And one of the things I think is really interesting about the selection, however, is that yes, Pope Leo XIV is an American, but he also has dual citizenship with Peru. And my sense is that a factor, maybe a big factor, that the conclave had to do with his deep connections to experience in Peru that made him a different kind of American, let's say. And so one of the things I think is interesting about this new Pope, that I'm going to be watching, is that there's a kind of cosmopolitanism to his identity and he's American obviously, but he's dual citizen.
"His name is significant, I think, hearkening back to Pope Leo XIII, who wrote what's considered the first papal social sin encyclical, in which Pope Leo XIII emphasized the importance of the role of workers, their right to organize, living wages."
In some ways it's very curious to think about him as very much a kind of man or a person of our times, right? Where even the United States itself is a country that has lots of immigrants, right? And lots of people like this Pope have deep connections to other places around the world.
And so yes, he's an American, but he may not be an American as we sometimes, or at least some people want to traditionally think about an American, right? He's very much from the Midwest, but he also has these deep connections and experiences in Peru and in Latin America. And I think — I will admit I'm a little speculating here since I had no real insight into the conclave — that that probably was something in his benefit that might've mitigated the sense that I described that the Americans are always so powerful.
Kenney: So let's talk about the implications for Catholicism and pop culture, which is your field.
Smith: Popular culture has long had a fascination with Catholicism for a number of reasons. In earlier decades, there was a kind of fascination with the exoticism of Catholicism, its pageantry, its ritual, its mystery, right? But I think that really beginning with, say, Pope John Paul II, who really was very adept at using the mass media for his own purposes, he was a globetrotting Pope, I sometimes think of him as the Indiana Jones of Pope's, you know?
"He's an American, but I think he may surprise us in what that means in interesting ways."
So there's a long history for this fascination. And of course, I think given the fact that he is an American, Pope Leo, we've already seen this, and I can't help, but think that he's going to become — in a way already has become — a very, very famous American, as Pope.
There are so many connections that can be drawn that popular culture can really work. Sports. Right? You know, the White Sox, White Sox - Cubs’ rivalry, right? He's from Chicago. Chicago has a very kind of storied place in American popular imagination.
His ancestors, who have ties to New Orleans into African American and Creole cultures. That seems like just a remarkable American story, particularly an American story that maybe isn't well known, but I can't help but think is going to be increasingly known. And it really is interesting that this new pope is in a sense shining a spotlight on these communities, people, African Americans and Creole cultures that have always been in America, always been part of Catholicism in the United States, but all too often kind of overlooked, right?
And one of the things I'll be interesting to see is the extent to which this pope, this first American pope, also becomes a way of refracting questions about American society itself through popular culture,?
We've already seen the enormous amount of attention on social media, memes, social media posts, even the big East Tournament I saw, tweeted out congratulations because of his connections with Villanova.
Conclave, the movie itself was an amazing example of I think of how a movie, at a time when a lot of people think, well, what's the future of movies, right? Are movies on their way out, which kind of a little silly, I mean, that's been debated for a long time.
But Conclave, the movie, when it came out last fall, who knew that it was gonna set up this context for this fascinating debate we've seen over the past month, this popular attention to the election of a pope?
I don't think it's the only factor in why there was so much attention paid to the Conclave, but I think we can't deny the fact that that movie played a role in helping to focus attention on the election of a new pope.
Kenney: We've got an American pope now, and we certainly have an American president entrenched in popular culture for the last couple of decades, really. So is that something that you'll be watching, the interaction between the two?
Smith: Yeah, totally. No doubt. We have now two Americans who are each, respectively, holding an enormously powerful and influential position or platform, if you will, the President United States Donald Trump, and then this new pope, this moral and spiritual leader of a global institution of Roman Catholicism, who's also an American.
It's going to be very interesting to see the story of these two Americans.
Kenney: Any other final comments on something we should look for in the time ahead?
Smith: I think one of the things should be very, very interesting. This Pope Leo, as I say, is an American, his name is significant, I think, hearkening back to Pope Leo XIII, who wrote what's considered the first papal social sin encyclical, in which Pope Leo XIII emphasized the importance of the role of workers, their right to organize, living wages.
I can't help but think that Leo — he's already alluded to this in his early statements about the importance of the dignity of workers and of labor. I think that's an important thing to watch.
And I think of, he's an American, but I think he may surprise us in what that means in interesting ways. He seems to express this cosmopolitan Americanism of both North and South America, which is, I think, going to be very interesting to see and how he gives as pope, head of the Catholic Church, his own accent to an American identity.
